First time copier buyer, need advice.

[Guest]

Hi all,

I've been tasked with purchasing a copier/printer/scanner (MFP) machine for our new office. budget is about $7K.

looking for:

fast machine 30-40ppm (even though we have modest volume)
duplex copy/scan with single pass (front and back at the same time)
100 document feeder
scan to searchable PDF (text PDF i.e. OCR)
scan to USB thumb drive
print from USB thumb drive (PDF/Word/Excel/etc)
collate/sort multiple copies of a document without expensive finisher
network scanning (i.e. scan to our desktop machines)


Narrowed down to:

Canon ImageRunner C3480i

Ricoh MP C3300

Kyocera TASKalfa c400i

any opinions/advice/suggestions?

I am open to considering other companies and/or machines.

Thanks,

-avi

[gwalters]

Hi

Looks like you want color - that's great. why do you need color

Additional equipment questions:

will you be using 11x17 as original and output
how many users will be connected to this unit
do you simply need sortation and no staple
why use the USB thumb drive for scan and print from
what volume do you foresee

Additional questions:

what type of business is this
are you scanning back to an EDM system
if so, which one

are you going to lease

either the Canon or the Ricoh would be fine - I do not know the Konica.

But the most important issue is the dealer you partner with and the support available to you after the sale.

Also - be aware when leasing - there are all sort of different lease agreements that may be one sided. Do not be afraid to line out what you do not like in a lease.

Email me if you would like to discuss more -

greg@thedeathofthecopier.com

[time2fly]

Canon would be my choice. Easy to use and to setup on a network for any kind of scanning and email. One thing to consider is the growth of your office and if the copier can handle the volume. In any case after working on 3 different types of copiers Canon Panasonic and Konica Minolta I find canon to be the best overall. Now Panasonic makes a real good color MFP that is reasonable in price and is a work horse very well built. hope this helps.

[avicarmi]

Hi

Looks like you want color - that's great. why do you need color

good question, did not really think why need color. both owner and CFO want it. why not? anything wrong with color?

originally they wanted to buy a color laser printer (HP) and a document scanner (Fujitsu). then they said that it would nice to have a copier in the office. so I did some research, and came to the conclusion (right or wrong I am not sure) that a color multifunction will be best.

the speed requirement also came from them.

it is probably an overkill, but the owner needs to spend money by the end of the year (also getting three 52" LCD TVs, server, laptops, phone system expansion, etc)

Additional equipment questions:

will you be using 11x17 as original and output

No, only letter size

how many users will be connected to this unit

15 now, 20-25 in the next three years

do you simply need sortation and no staple

I see a need to print multiple copies of a document, and need ability to sort/collate, we can staple by hand, but it would be nice for the printer to collate/offset each copy of the document

why use the USB thumb drive for scan and print from

because the CFO said that he would like that ability. has to do with working on secret projects.

what volume do you foresee

for now, very low, less than 5,000 per month total print and copy.

Additional questions:

what type of business is this

software development/engineering

are you scanning back to an EDM system
if so, which one

Not sure yet, the goal is to scan reams and reams of existing documents into electronic format, namely searchable text PDF.

are you going to lease

no, must spend money by end of the year

either the Canon or the Ricoh would be fine - I do not know the Konica.

But the most important issue is the dealer you partner with and the support available to you after the sale.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Also - be aware when leasing - there are all sort of different lease agreements that may be one sided. Do not be afraid to line out what you do not like in a lease.

Email me if you would like to discuss more -

greg@thedeathofthecopier.com

[avicarmi]

Canon would be my choice. Easy to use and to setup on a network for any kind of scanning and email. One thing to consider is the growth of your office and if the copier can handle the volume. In any case after working on 3 different types of copiers Canon Panasonic and Konica Minolta I find canon to be the best overall. Now Panasonic makes a real good color MFP that is reasonable in price and is a work horse very well built. hope this helps.

we currently have very low volume needs, probably less than 5,000 copies/prints per month. modest growth, as more and more documents are electronic.

Thanks for the recommendation. will take a look at Panasonic too, but running out of time, need make decision soon.

-avi

[avicarmi]

either the Canon or the Ricoh would be fine - I do not know the Konica.

I just notice, it is not a Konica, it is a Kyocera (are they the same?)

any way, the new Kyocera TASKalfa seem to have all/most the features that we want.

they are available with a 100 page dual scan auto doc feeder (i.e. scan both sides of the page in one pass), 75ppm simplex 50ppm/100ipm duplex. scan to USB thumbdrive, but no OCR included as far as I can tell (the ImageRunner 3480i does include OCR/scan to searchable text, but is much slower scanning, esp duplex)

drum should last for 300,000 imprints, 3 year warranty, and according to their propaganda, very reliable (this is from stuff I found on the net, mostly press releases)

Kyocera Mita extended their warranties of all TASKalfa products operating at 25 PPM or more to three full years or the life of the maintenance kit. In most cases, the three year limit would be reached first.

Kyocera’s long-life technology, known to deliver the ultra-reliability that businesses demand, helps reduce required service intervention while maximizing performance in every environment. The TASKalfa series is built with Kyocera’s long-life consumable technology, including the company’s Amorphous Silicon (ASi) drums, thus delivering maximum business “uptime” through a class leading 300,000 page preventive maintenance (PM) schedule. This incredible PM cycle creates longer intervals of time between required service visits and helps minimize maintenance costs for end-users.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...20081208005144

Kyocera Mita America Launches the TASKalfa Color Multifunctional Product Series with the Unsurpassed Performance, Ultra Reliability and Superior Image Quality That Businesses Demand

Exceptional Image Quality and Enhanced Productivity Expertly Delivered Through a Class-Leading 300,000-Page Rated Drum Yield

[avicarmi]

Should I go back to the drawing board?

is it better to get a high speed color printer, say HP 4700dn (31ppm) for $1400

and a high speed color scanner, Fujitsu fi-6240 (60ppm simplex, 120ipm duplex, comes with very good OCR software) for $1800

so for total $3200, which is about half the cost of the Canon 3480i / Ricoh MP C3300 / Kyocera 300ci, I can get all the basics that we need, without any extra frills (such as scan to USB, print from USB, etc)


except for speed (30-40ppm) our needs are going to be very basic. make copies, print color documents, scan documents into searchable text PDF. don't really need much more than that.


thanks,

-avi

[gwalters]

Do not go back to the Drawing board - and color is great

But - check into the HP line, CM4730's perhaps the CM4730fm MFP - not that expensive, good quality, workhorse, can easily handle 5k to 15k. I see prices for around 6k-

If you are going to purchase, than this is a very good choice, at these low volumes- operational cost will be good and reliability will be measured in "years" - but - no thumb drive capability either print from or scan to

Kyocera - my bad, I saw the "K" and didn't read beyond -

as with most if not all copiers, you will need to get a service agreement, this is highly advisable as well. I am familiar with Kyocera from a sales standpoint.

I found the quality to be lacking but on par with the cheap purchase price. I have been told by some technicians that getting into the machine and servicing is difficult.

I do not see all that much advantage to a dual scan at those speeds, when printing speed may not actually be the same as scan - meaning, sure the scan is fast but the output is behind the scanning.

At this point, if the cash is in hand, I would go with the Canon or an HP - big names, good quality, easily and readily available support - and check into the Economic Stimulas package of 2008, I believe there are some goodies in there for companies on capital purchases in 2008 as well as leasing...

Good Luck -


PS -

If your CEO wants to start saving money on the company's total printing costs, look into Managed Print Services...

[copykat427R]

First time copier buyer, need advice.

How about the new Samsung C8380ND Color 40 ppm
iQuick 40 copies per minute, Mono & Color
i
i 2100 sheet high capacity paper deck / stand installed
i 100-sheet stack by-pass tray
i 100-sheet Duplex document feeder
i Standard Network Printing
i Standard Duplexing
i Standard COLOR scanning
i
i Fax kit
i Internal Finisher stapler
i ID card copy, Auto fit, Margin shift, Book copy, Clone copy
i Electronic sorting
iReduction & Enlargement from 25% up to 400% with auto & zoom

[time2fly]

Samsung is another good choice the model mentioned is good we have one in our office scans prints faxes copies the scanning is a little difficult to set up but it's a good MFP. I still think a Canon or a Panasonic is a better choice, be sure to get a service contract on any piece of equipment you decide to get. If price and speed needs to be in a certain range then take a serious look at the Panasonic, the nice feature about these copiers is that the end user can replace all of the consumables, drum units toner cart., and waste toner container. The only thing that I don't think they will do is dual scan. Here's a link to there web site

Learn about Panasonic's C3 Series Multifunctional Products

[tmaged]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Kyocera. While it is a brand new machine, the print engine is an updated version of the current one. We normally try not to sell "new" machines until they get all the bugs worked out. All manufacturers have problems when they roll a new line, but I don't expect anything with these.
I was trained on these a few weeks ago, and they are exceptional machines. Quality of images is excellent. It comes standard with 2gb of ram. We've already sold a 400ci.
You can add Kyocapture express relatively inexpensively for text searchable PDF's, plus it will create windows folders if none exist, send copies to a windows folder/FTP server at the same time among other things. Add www.SentryFile.com and you have a complete digital document filing & retrieval system.
You won't be able to print word or excel docs from a jump drive as the application has to be loaded to open them. You could save those files as a PDF to print from USB.
My final comment would be to get a service contract. At the minimum for parts & labor. Copiers are pretty much all moving parts.
LMK if you have any questions.

[user245470]

have you considered a sharp mx-4501 or mx 3501 same machine just 35 or 45 cpm

this is a sharp coor machine
this machine does dual scan for both copy and scan, has a usb drive that you can print and scan to. ricoh i know doesnt have this. can scan to a searchable pdf right out of box with sharps ocr program sharpdesk that one license comes with the machine. also allows you to change into work or exel or word perfect programs. can have a fax option added on to machine and work directly from main ops panel. can collate/ sort with plain box and can get an optional internal finisher for not to much more. this allows stapling without taking up any extra space.
i work on three of the models the ricoh machine works well but the ocr program is not tht easy and doesnt have a usb plug in for scanning or printing
the kyocera compny makes good printers but their copies have issues
samsungs are a very small part of the market share so service might be an issue if your dealer closes.
hp copiers are horrible and service for them are not great and they are ink copiers not toner unless they changed something i dont know of
canon im not to fimilar with those copiers so i cant give you advice on them
this sharp copier has been labeled best in class by buyers lab in 2007 and they work beautifully you would not be dissapointed
also can scan to email and directly to computers along with the sharpdesk feature and scan and print from usb
youll love this machine
thanks for reading
your friendly neighborhood sharp gold master tech

[Mopar Freak]

I have seen the previous Kyocera color machines give the techs fits.I have worked on Kyocera B&W machines. In a perfect environment they could go 300, 400, 500K, but just nick that drum and you buy a whole unit baby! AND CUSTOMERS SEEM TO KNOW HOW TO MESS UP ANYTHING! I would go with the Ricoh. They are very reliable and have excellent color.

[avicarmi]

How about the new Samsung C8380ND Color 40 ppm

It was the first machine I looked at, was told it is a "throwaway" machine, cheaply built. something about "A4 class" whatever it means?

obviously, the people telling me this were Canon/Ricoh/Kycera/etc. sales people. but it was "too good to be true" as far as price vs speed, i.e. $3800 for 40ppm whereas the others were $8-10K for 40ppm and $6-8K for 30-35ppm. so I figured that there is some truth to it...

Thanks,

-avi

[avicarmi]

this is a sharp coor machine
this machine does dual scan for both copy and scan, has a usb drive that you can print and scan to. ricoh i know doesnt have this. can scan to a searchable pdf right out of box with sharps ocr program sharpdesk that one license comes with the machine. also allows you to change into work or exel or word perfect programs. can have a fax option added on to machine and work directly from main ops panel. can collate/ sort with plain box and can get an optional internal finisher for not to much more. this allows stapling without taking up any extra space.
i work on three of the models the ricoh machine works well but the ocr program is not tht easy and doesnt have a usb plug in for scanning or printing
the kyocera compny makes good printers but their copies have issues
samsungs are a very small part of the market share so service might be an issue if your dealer closes.
hp copiers are horrible and service for them are not great and they are ink copiers not toner unless they changed something i dont know of
canon im not to fimilar with those copiers so i cant give you advice on them
this sharp copier has been labeled best in class by buyers lab in 2007 and they work beautifully you would not be dissapointed
also can scan to email and directly to computers along with the sharpdesk feature and scan and print from usb
youll love this machine
thanks for reading
your friendly neighborhood sharp gold master tech

Thank you so much,

I did not look at Sharp, probably because none of the local dealers here sell/push it.

will take a look, but time is running out...

-avi