Opinions on recycled paper

[schooltech]

After reading the "copier smells like crap" thread, and reading Ollie1981's post on this greenish, bleach-smelling paper, I'm curious as to some others' experiences?

Sometime in the future, I'm going to try to "sell" to the school district the idea of maybe trying some recycled paper to be a bit more responsible for the environment. Our schools already have geothermal heating, a wind turbine (more for studying, but still pretty cool) and other eco-friendly items, yet we buy virgin pulp by the pallets, and we do NOT recycle on a district level----yet. Of course, because of the quantities we buy, I will have to find paper that is priced right, as it will be hard to beat Costco's landed cost on the paper we currently receive.

After looking at some of the prices on the net, and I have yet to get any bulk pricing, the cost differential might be too great to consider it. I still think, though, that it would be a responsible thing to do.

What I want to know is some of your experiences with recycled paper, whether it's 30%, 100%, bleached, various types, costs, etc.

I haven't really read much on experiences with recycled paper, so I'm assuming that it's not seen too often in businesses, or not seen enough to be discussed in any threads.

It's not an exciting thread, but I'm curious as to what you think.

Thanks.

[Fearless V K]

There are obvious drawbacks to using recycled paper from a reliability/service standpoint, even though recycling makes sense. If you are buying new paper, it should at least be recycled through your community programs after it has been used. Also certain copier manufacturers only warrant their equipment for use with paper that contains a certain percentage of recycled content. For Ricoh it is 30%. So I will usually tell our customers if they want to use recycled paper, it should not exceed the 30% content.

[schooltech]

Thanks

[cobiray]

I agree with Fearless. I have had some jamming/curling related issues with the higher recycled content. My recommendation is to get a sample of the paper you would like to use and test it on a trial basis. If you are buying in bulk for the district I would assume your paper company could get you a few cases to try (maybe even on the house). I've had seen several companies buy in bulk or "get a great deal" on paper and gotten burned in the long run as the paper ended up unsuitable for the machines.

[iMind]

[blackcat4866]

The main issues that I've addressed with recycled paper are:
1) Jamming due to paper dust content.
2) Poor drum cleaning due to paper dust content.
3) Developer contamination due to paper dust content.

I haven't kept any particular records regarding types of recycled paper, just that I've discouraged it's use for on machines that I service for the last 20 years.

My personal opinion here is that you're shooting yourself in the foot. =^..^=

[Shadow1]

The biggest problem I see with high recycle content paper is that it has a high rag content - that means lots of short fibers from the recycling process - that translates to paper that is flimsy for it's weight and produces a lot of paper dust. The stiffness can be solved by using 24lb paper - this also tends to increase the brightness without having to use a lot of extra bleaching agents - which helps the paper dust because less bleach also equals better fibers.

Bottom line is that all paper contains recycled pulp from within the paper mill, what gets reported on the package is the Post Consumer content. If you can save money using it get some and experiment. I'd say run it for at least a full PM cycle on several machines - you have an advantage since your the tech...

[nmfaxman]

I've got a Minolta Di750 running 1M copies a year.
All they run is the cheapest recycled paper.
It jams. It won't staple every time. Feed tires wear at about twice the rate. Cleaning web tends to twist and bunch.
I donated a case of good paper and ran jobs for her and the recycled paper that was $1.00 a case more had less problems.
Penny Wise Dollar Stupid.
The more a machine jams, the more paper it is going to use.
1 jam = 2 to 4 sheets of paper wasted.

[schooltech]

This is exactly what I was looking for. I was considering it for being enviromentally conscious, but with the cost differential alone, I doubt anything would change.

Especially with the problems that you guys are having, I will put this one on the back burner.

I was hoping that, over the years, the paper has dramatically improved since the early days. Given the volumes we run, I don't need any additional headaches. It definitely sounds as though I would be inclined to NOT attempt any steps toward recycled paper, as they haven't really improved it enough to compete with normal paper.

[DRichard]

Try Navigator Premium Recycled. We use it at Thermocopy of Tennessee. It's more expensive than new, but it is part of an overall "green" program that we promote regionally. Check out our website at Thermocopy.com for more details about this.

[Ollie1981]

I suppose recycled paper is the same as virgin paper in the respect that by and large you get what you pay for.

I've seen some papers that are up to 50% recycled content that are actually pretty good. But they aren't the cheapest recycled stock available by a long chalk. The good stuff costs more to produce and it is tougher to produce a high quality end product with recycled paper than with virgin wood pulp.

I guess it's whether your customer's primary concern by buying recycled paper is social responsibility or cost. Most of the crap recycled paper I see is at customers I know are having their budgets squeezed so they literally buy the cheapest "copier grade" white paper available, which, by default is usually recycled.

The other problem I forgot to mention with the atrocious green, bleach stink paper is what happens when they try and put it through their Venus (Gestetner CS555) colour copier. The Martini MP7500s hate this paper bad enough as it is, but they generally go along with the joke. In the Venus, this stuff just concertinas every 7-8 sheets at the fuser exit and for some reason it destroys the fuser belt after 50k. It was absolutely impossible to get a decent looking colour copy on it due in part to the green-ness of the paper totally messing up the colour balance and the other part due to the high mosture content causing poor transfer/fusing. They have been told to keep this paper well away from the Venus otherwise they'll have to pay for everything it prematurely destroys, but most times when I've been onsite fixing one of the MP7500s, one of the customers will tap my shoulder and ask if I can get a jam out of the CS555, I'll pull out the tray and lo and behold, there's some "Purewhite" in it.

[Lea@ABM]

Is it really green

Im no scientist but isnt it more environmentally friendly to use virgin paper than recycled?

More tree's are planted everyday due to the demand for paper that would not otherwise be on the planet so surely thats a good thing. Also paper is made from fast growing softwood like pine, sustainably farmed in Scandinavia and Canadian climates and NOT the endangered rain forests of the tropics like some customers suggest when running test copies!

Im not against recycling and would encourage more of it but just because it says 'recycled' it doesnt mean its always the greenest option and as paper is bio-degradeable anyway im sure it does more harm collecting it up, transporting it about to some factory with machines that use more fossil fuel to turn it back into something that causes copiers to jam and then an engineer has to get in his car and drive to fix it using more fossil fuel.....

I dont know, maybe im just being silly and as I say, im no scientist, but its got to be worth thinking about hasnt it?

[paulg]

Im no scientist but isnt it more environmentally friendly to use virgin paper than recycled?

More tree's are planted everyday due to the demand for paper that would not otherwise be on the planet so surely thats a good thing. Also paper is made from fast growing softwood like pine, sustainably farmed in Scandinavia and Canadian climates and NOT the endangered rain forests of the tropics like some customers suggest when running test copies!

Im not against recycling and would encourage more of it but just because it says 'recycled' it doesnt mean its always the greenest option and as paper is bio-degradeable anyway im sure it does more harm collecting it up, transporting it about to some factory with machines that use more fossil fuel to turn it back into something that causes copiers to jam and then an engineer has to get in his car and drive to fix it using more fossil fuel.....

I dont know, maybe im just being silly and as I say, im no scientist, but its got to be worth thinking about hasnt it?

I go along with that and have said as much.

Like when people reuse paper.

I was last year at a university surrounded by people with two many qualfications in the admin section.
They said oh we want to save the planet blah blah. But puttingrecyled paper copies though which were on already used at least once and some twice already. Was mucking up the machines meaning we had to change more parts (hot rollers, feed tyres than was being saved. Of course using more electricty and toner.

They stopped doing it and we saw the reduction in part spend straight off and had far less calls like you say by using better quality paper which was only part recycled we did more good for the enviroment.